Haha... Sonntags-Stammtisch Olé!!!!greyli hat geschrieben:lohnt sich auch gar nicht dieses new winds thema aufzugreifen...da wir uns wohl alle kaum so mit dem thema beschäftigen wie leute die direkt mit bestimmen sachen zu tun haben...da treffen einfach welten aufeinander und ein kompromiss wird es wohl eh nicht geben da keiner der beiden seiten einlenken wird....sollen die unter sich ausmachen ,wer denkt das das thema für ihn relevant ist soll halt direkt bei der band nachfragen was abging oder einfach das thema ruhen lassen....und das bei poisonfree...viel zuviele übereifrige PC-polizisten rumrennen sollte auch bekannt sein
pxf Debatte amüsant, á la wir sind die guten... Die hätten sollen mal lieber Samstag in der nähe des vorderen Zeltplatzes sein, da ging es nämlich richtig UN-PC zu... Wenn es interessiert hier ein offener Brief an Tomas bezüglich der Diskussionen...
Hey tomas,
i´m one of the persons who was involved in the arguments yesterday on fluff fest. this is an open letter, i sent it not just to you, i posted it on different boards. I wrote it, because i saw that the whole thing affected you very much. I want to make some things plain and want to explain, why this whole thing escalated like this.
You know, that there were two texts posted on the fluff board near the festival entrance. These texts commented the „animal killing-holocaust comparison“ and the term „vegan jihad“. I didn´t write these texts, but i read them and i found that the critics on these terms were very constructive. My impression is that these text were written, to animate a discussion and not to make trouble. They weren´t abusively or unconstrucrive and of course not facistic, but i will come to this point later.
During i was standing in front of the board, two persons came from the back, even at this time already totally gruffy and offensiv, and pulled off the textes. Me and a friend wanted to know, what they are doing and one of these guys hit my friends face with the crumpled paper in his hand, in a very agressive way . That was the first but not the last violence coming from the band new wings and their environment. Such violences shouldn´t have place in a festival like fluff or anywhere else, thats why i followed the guys, that directly buggered off to their merchandise. I asked them, why they did this and why they are so aggressive and why they not just answered the textes, when it pissed them off.
After i said that, four guys and one girl ran very agressively and offensively at me and another girl that helped me. I couldn´t get any word, they just shouted, abused me very nasty (as a nazi and facist-and remember i didn´t say anything about the textes because i couldn´t get a word and they didn´t know, if i have anything to do with the textes). they offered me violence and i was really scared and believe me, that don´t happens often to me. I´m sure if i didn´t go away after a while, someone would have hit me.
My opinion is, that it´s very questionable, when people answer on critics directly with such a tough violence.
Now the two textes. I took pictures of it, thats why i can display them here:
The first one is about the term „vegan jihad“:
We didn´t come here to make political statements, but the onesided political agitation on the festival through some people makes it necessary for us to take a clear position to some of the points. We are totally aware of the complexity of the theme (middle east etc.) and that it´s not possible to eroate that in a few sentences, at least not on a satisfying level.
Hardcore is political? We ask ourselves how a positive reference on an inhumane, ideological system like the jihad is possible in a scene that explicitely formulates that it wants to be political. Jihad means the holy war against non believers. This statement can never get along with an amancipative attitude. A positive reference on jihad is absolutely unbearable, whether the term used to articulate animal rights or, at least indirectly, is used in context of the everyday praxis, which is terror and suicide attacks of islamic groups in the middle east, where it is declared as „justified war“. One sided parols like „Free palestine“ and the flyers that are related describe the conflict in a narrow-minded/wrong way. The inhumane Ideology the jihadists forget that as well as the fact that this holy war is mainly directed against civilians. The patters of black and white in this description culminates in a call to boycott israelian products......
(i´m sorry, i cannot read this sentence, but it would be nice, if you can help. I have attached the pictures of the texts)
If anyone feels like a political person, he or she must have a ....awareness of history which includes, as a necessary consequence the right of existance of israel.
PLEASE LEAVE THAT PAPER ON THE BOARD YOU CAN COMMENT IT OR WRITE A NEW ONE.THANKS.
Second text:
The holocaust is unique
We would be glad, if papers like this wouldn´t be necessary, but unfortunatly they are and we have to recognize certain tendencies of the animal liberation movement on the fluff festival, that must be heavily criticised. We want to make clear, that we are also totally pro animal rights and that we ourselves choosen a vegan livestyle, but nevertheless, for us it´s totally unacceptable to compare the killing of animals with the commited murders in the third reich. For example there was an animal rights movie showed on saturday, which pictures of suffering animals were followed by pictures of the death camp ausschwitz birkenau. There are other publications (shirts, books etc.) on the killing of animals. The Holocaust and the other minorities like Sinti and Roma, Homosexuals, Handicapped people and those of different political think is is unique and cannot be compared with anything else on the world, by the way, animals are mainly killed for profit (food, clothing etc.) and for instance jews were killed just because they are jews.
Every comparisson relativates the Holocaust and the happenings in the Third Reich.
That people don´t care a lot about animal rights is a big problem that can be criticised on its´s own. A comparisson to totally different crimes is not necessary!
PLEASE LEAVE IT ON THE BOARD!
That are the both textes. They express a different view on the things, that is, after my opinion, very important, to develope further to emancipatory politics. A politically opinion that is extreme stucked, and completly ignorant and not able to take criticism, whithout turning to violence, shouldn´t be tolerated. Especially not in the punk/hardcore scene. An one sided attitude towards the middle east conflict and blind solidarity, no matter for which side, is wrong.
The texts were posed on the fluff board, because it was the only forum for non-merch-people to take a position and to critizise and i think that this should be the right of everybody. New winds had during the whole weekend a good forum, because of their merch. They littered the whole festivalplace with their (after my opinion very one sided and narrow minded) „boycott israel“ stickers, but then they didn´t tolerate, when other people critizise their stuff publicy on a board.
People that don´t face up to critics or other points of view and responde directly and without listening with agression, ignorance and violance shouldn´t be tolerated on fluff or in the whole punk/hardcore scene:
BOYCOTT PEOPLE LIKE THIS!!!
I have seen that you cried because of the whole thing and that it affects you very much and that you are very sad. But i think argues, especially in politics are important. It´s just sad, when argues have to end violent like this. I hope you´ll feel better. And to hear something nice: the rest of the fluff was great. I really apreciate what you´re doing, thanks for everything.
greetings
PS: it would be very nice, if you can post this on different boards. I did it here in germany to. I think it is important to have as many opinions as possible about this whole thing. Thanks for that.
Ansonsten super Wochende, super Bands(auch wenn ich nur 9 oder so gesehen habe) und lohnt sich eig. jedes Jahr wieder hin zu fahren...
@christian und co.
Sissy!!! War ja wohl schon von vorn herein klar, dass es aufn Fluff wohl etwas lauter in unserer Tent Area wird...
